Open Forum Discussions and Debate

Hiasl, a 26-year-old male chimpanzee lives at an animal sanctuary in Voesendorf, south of Vienna.
Some animal rights backers are petitioning to have Haisl legally declared a 'person.' Hiasl's supporters argue he needs that status to become a legal entity that can receive donations and get a guardian to look out for his interests.
The campaign began after the animal sanctuary where Hiasl (pronounced HEE-zul) and another chimp, Rosi, have lived for 25 years went bankrupt!!!!

well my question is, is it an obsession of a over-zealous group who are exploited by the lawyers??s'ppose they win,will this new 'person'roam around freely??for its against law to put a human being in a cage!and isnt there any other way of collecting donation for a captivated animal??

well I'm afraid it blows the popular phrase 'only in America' out of the water

I just googled Haisl. My question is why does it take $6,800 a month to cover food and veterinary bills for two chimps? What are they eating? I like animals, but this sounds like someone at the shelter trying to keep their job going. My solution would be to find a zoo for the chimps that can take care of them and their costs will be spread over other animals making it less costly. If the shelter was not a viable business and vocation for the staff, they need to move on and find other employment.

A lot of families of more than 2 live on way less than $6,800 a month and they're covering people living expenses that chimps wouldn't have. Clothes being the first to come to mind, Internet Service Provider and a computer being the second.

Did I shutdown the discussions with that? I don't think I'm being hard on the chimps, but I'm not monkeying around, that's over $80,000 a year. Maybe they could cut back on cable TV or go to a dialup connection instead of cable internet. They could eat poptarts every meal.

There is a lot more going on than simian economics shutting down this game site. A dead chat room and a withering discussion board may be precursors to what's to come. Many familiar names have evaporated within the past week or so. Change is enevitable, looks like it's time to move on to somewhere else.

Hither
not sure what you are on about, many folks and lots of new ones spread over many new pages and things to occupy our time with on the site at the moment. But if you are not happy with the site then sadly you must do what you must do.
Or perhaps you could suggest to Gath a new idea that you might like on the site.
cheers

I agree with Bill, that is a huge cost to look after 2 chimps. Perhaps they could be integrated into some other park and the cost spread out over a lot more animals than just two.

The name says it all. Time of death, 12:54 PM 09/May/07.

With regards to the Mugabe issue on 'easy' yesterday. The Aussie cricketers are going to be damned if they do and damned if they don't. Perhaps it should be left to the individual players to decide whether they go to Zimbabwe or not. Stuart MacGill made a decision to boycott playing in Zimbabwe in 2004.

Other than that someone should hire Jason Bourne to take Bob 'out'.

Billy, that's an interesting idea. When you tie up the contract can I add a whole lot of others to the list?

What despots do you have in mind Mary?!

Some interesting numbers are emerging about the use of this site. Generally speaking (on Easy), about 80% of the posts are made by women, and of the remaining 20%, about half are made by one or two males. Today, for example, out of the first 105 or so posts, 90 are made by women, and of the 15 made by men, 11 are made by one man. In addition, three people together have made about 50 of the posts today. The numbers are not exact, because gender is not always obvious, and there are the 'from' posts, and joke-name posts, like 'ornithologist' and 'chairman.' This is very different from the situation a year or so ago.

Just an observation....

Always been an over balance of women on the site. Maybe women are not so confrontational and as the site has become more harmonious and less aggro the men dont like the nicety. does that tell us that maybe the men were causing all the aggro??
gee did I say that .................. we could have a discussion on that issue.

''the men were causing all the aggro'' sounds confrontational, not harmonious.

This site has changed over the course of two years...especially in the way how people interract with each other, many have left, some have stayed and people will continue to join - but it has changed. When it was 'new' there was an element of 'anything' goes and the comments reflected this and there was a great deal of hilarity, comraderie, wicked humour etc. Many times it crossed the line and for better or worse the 'tone' changed to accommodate those who found some of it offensive...
Earlier on Ian I addressed the issue as to why people come to this site...for their own personal reasons whatever they may be - not for us to judge. But I know for a fact there have been people who comment , as Rose puts it, to cause aggro. We can choose to ignore it. But it becomes tiresome if it sets the tone. It is insidious. Do we have to accept this? Seems we have no real choice, because for whatever reason, the person(s) behaving in this way has a need to...
Is this preferable to what might be considered insipid/banal/lighthearted comments? Depends on your viewpoint...but Gath is doing as much as he can to satisfy the needs of most people on here...and that is why we can express our views on this page, hopefully without too much rancour.
It pleased me no end to see your name here today as I have truly enjoyed your company in the chatroom, but I no longer recognise your posts (apart from Ian/Boston!) - if indeed you are posting comments at all - but there was a time when I could...but it seems originality is highly coveted by some...would love to see you become a FM! Take care and keep visiting...toodles x

thought interact looked wrong...scuse further typos in the above missive...not even sure if I should've posted it now - oh well...nite nite x

I, too, remember this site over two years ago, it was(and still is, for the main)a happy, carefree, friendly crowd who have shared humour, wit and other trivial delights (oh remember the celery whippings billy!! Such fun x) and was enjoyed by all who frequented it. I don't think you can attribute the 'aggro' to the men, for there are many men (and women) who have contributed positively to the site and it has been better for it. I have seen many vitriolic comments by both sexes and sometimes have found certain postings offensive but have chosen to ignore the comments I do not like... as jeb (hope you are okay x) once said once in a hole et al. I like the freedom to be who you want to be and after all we are only known as the names we choose to reveal to the public and that says nothing about our true identities. Gath has done his upmost to keep the site as free as he can from the occasional 'wanton poster' and as a result it may have lost that 'edge' for some who prefer not to divulge their personal details to this site. In turn we have lost a few characters who have added orginality to the site.. Anne, Ian, Jeb, PD Pete, Ted (all in alphabetical order so no favouritism) and others. It would be great to see everyone come back and get on with it and just enjoy it for what it is a game with 9 numbers, we all work it out one by one until the puzzle fits... however long it takes we hopefully will find the correct solution xx
Be Gods I need a glass of wine and an indulgent piece of naughty cake now..

By the way and whilst pouring a tad too large glass of wine,(and with no disrespect to the male populus) the women do have exceptional qualities when it comes to writing 'chapter and verse' in the chatroom and it does 'get down and dirty', that is something that can't be replaced xx

Ian
use the whole quote
'does that tell us that maybe the men were causing all the aggro??'
and the follow up
'we could have a discussion on that issue.'
at least it gives us something to discuss!

Rosemary, I've found men and women can both be aggro??' depending on the topic. I let some things slide an others cause me to climb atop my soapbox and orate profusely. A lot of it depends on how much time I have to form my words. I also don't feel that many people have left, it seems like people come and go to this site depending on what is happening in their life and it may just be timing keeping people from being here. Plus, I haven't checked the competition page to see what's happening there, don't have the time or inclination.

Billy ,re your earlier comment...do you have all day? Suffice to say not many would remain unscathed!

And further I think that if you announced a contract on any leader who lied or did not act in the best interests of the people, you would find a great number would hire extra bodyguards.

Not sure i'd be wanting to hire myself out as a bodyguard!

But would Jason Bourne have the time? Thats an awful lot of work for one chap regardless of how good he is?

He is Jason Bourne - even if he does suffer from a spot of amnesia...he can do anything...

and he looks so good too....

What a good read, a change of pace, yet I opt for the nice more than the spice...there is so much to oppose in this world where we live...I enjoy some peace of mind, body and spirit that I advocate for, yet constant agreement can be a bore. Therefore I say, spice it up, but play nice...how? Respect what we each have to say ..male or female..it matters not, say what you feel or think, we can learn a lot!!!! As others have mentioned those brave enough to tread in different paths were routinely disparaged, yet they were valued com mentors that I'd love to see return, if only on pages such as these.

Mamacita 2:
Many voices were silenced when entré to this site became a matter of email addresses and passwords. At one time, this website was an open forum where all were welcome to participate. Now it has the feeling of a private organization with secret handshakes. Never belonged to one of those and never will. Oversensative people complained about a few witty and ascerbic comments and now they have what they want and they are welcome to it. Isolating one's self from the 'real' world feels safe but it is actually a self imposed internment. The last couple of weeks of Easy posting has devolved into vapid treakle as a result. This page is on life support as well. Gath may have made a few timid souls feel better, but he made jumping through hoops a requirement for joining and I don't jump through hoops where no hoops existed before.

If only it were only about a few witty and ascerbic comments...witty and ascerbic was acceptable until it crossed the line and, I'll use that word again...became insidious.
The fact that Whither posted what they did is indicative by what I mean - it is not a helpful comment - so why make it? The fact that comments don't get posted on pages such as these on a daily basis is perhaps because people do have better things to do and are not so isolated from the 'real' world.
Give Gath some credit here - he would not have done what he did if there were not far deeper issues at play. I doubt if anyone is privy to what made Gath say to himself enough is enough...
Bob Frost - you obviously don't like the way the site is operating - you don't like the vapid treacle being posted, you don't like jumping through hoops, you see this as an exclusive 'club'...so why are you still posting? You've made it patently clear you're not happy with this site, so are you going to continue to post comments to make your point? Somehow I think you are.

'It’s impossible to complain and be happy at the same time.'

My goodness, look what happens when the children are left alone. Disappear for a couple of weeks and it's always a surprise to walk in and find what has been done to the place. Some of the furniture is moved around and unfamiliar names have made themselves at home. Looks like a few went outside to play and got lost too. What's with the membership and password in the chat room? Has Gath started a cover charge for entertainment? Catching up on the reading, it looks like a few have suffered a bellyache, ie the ( )ithers. And Billy, if I ever go beyond witty and ascerbic, I'm sure you will let me know in your usual witty and ascerbic manner.

jeb - you breathe x

I don't think anyone has a problem with witty and ascerbic, it's plain nasty that is offensive. It is possible to post intelligent, informed opinion without resorting to personal abuse.

Hmmm...I just heard about this venue; never been here before. Looks good. You are talking about the tenor of this site and how it has changed over a few years. I met a young woman starting her PhD in Internet Sociology. She will be studying Chat sites etc like Sudoku.com.au and many others to determine who uses them, what they like, what class they are from etc. Particularly for the purpose of finding out what advertisements etc will be most effective on a particular site. Whoa! We may be under a glass and never know it. Imagine her job - just spending her time browsing the web all day!

Carol and Mary: Glad to have some new voices in the crowd.
I expressed an informed opinion once about how a fellow parted his hair and he took offense, as was my intention. That's about as nasty as I've ever gotten except to mutter displeasure (under my breath) with a particularly bad golf shot. And about the PhD; a good way to chase people out of a chat room is to start canvasing them for preferences of product unless it entails a learned discussion of single malts. How does she figure to classify people if they wish to remain somewhat anonymous?

jebbles!! ye gods - thought you had got lost yourself - just mind you don't trip over the Khorasan rug or knock your head on the kitchen witch - all new stuff...
The mind boggles as to how the 'fellow' took offence when you are an exponent of the comb-over (great look btw)...obviously you were only giving him constructive advice...

Quarrels abound about who is here and how, yet post are made when we chose to complain...I see no gates which fall in place...comment and remember...respect, common sense and patience..no one will always see things as you do...yet each entry has value, if for no more than discussion. Let peace enter here, yet may the hackles be raised because in disagreement answers may lie!

witty and ascorbic comments would be subjective at best, some say nasty or stirring often was heard....what is, is what's wanted by the masses...no life support is needed...disagree without being disagreeable is always fine...but that's not how it went down the line...don't blame Gath or those still here..Bob you didn't like the way things were going...that's fair! However, the many who are still here seems to show that does not mean its gone to hell, freedom to say whats on ones mind can still be seen...No one can please everyone, so if its not your cup of tea anymore...move on to where you can be happy! May peace be found where ere you land! If you choose to stay, please enjoy us as we are, flawed but moving as best we can!

Breezing through the pages here, and I find this forum. Blah, blah, blah.