Open Forum Discussions and Debate

to turn the page?

yay

Whats with everyone? I thought that if I started a new page it would invigorate intermelectual discussion? (My contribution being turning the page!)Anyway have any of the Americans any thoughts on the new Michael Moore doco 'Sicko'?

I refuse to recognize that person's credibility. I will fight to the death for his or anyone else's right to say what they believe and my right to disdain their point of view. I have relagated him to the same catagory as Hanoi Jane. Total contempt.

I was just asking? Being from Oz I have little idea of the state or condition of the US health system and wondered if he made any valid points.

Mary, please don't feel that was an attack on you or your question. I hope someone else will step in and give you another point of view. Its just that name, its on my hot button list so the problem is here and not with your question.

Is there is a name for the following:

A word that when you lose one letter reverses the meaning. eg. friend - fiend

mmmmmm good question Linda .... will ponder and return when not so busy, in a couple of days ...
cheers

Mary...the U.S health system is beyond repair as far as I'm concerned, and I feel Michael Moore scored many important points and facts. Slanted? Sure! True? Sure! Fair? More fair than what the drug companies give to the U.S populance! The health care system here is broken and needs help that goes beyond just money. Common sense would be a good place to start! I appreciate Jeb's feelings...but as far as I'm concerned...Go Michael..Go!

Just leave it up to me. And I promise, none of my campaign contributors, stock market shills, or real estate partners will have any say in it. Just ask Vince Foster.

Thanx Mamacita, I know MM has an agenda but wondered how true his findings were. We have problems with funding the system but the principals behind free universal health care should be an essential part of any country. As for Hilary, I was stunned to hear details about her backflip. I had thought she was a 'good guy'.

Are you the chef's pastry assistant Hillary or the third shift gate guard Hillary?
See, Mamacita used words beyond your ken, id est 'common sense'.

Linda, I have driven myself nuts trying to find a
name for a word/words that you describe
I have been to word play sites, Wikopedia, etc.
Can't find anything relating to dropping one letter to reverse the meaning of the word.
I hope someone can come up with an answer!
My neck hurts and my posterior is numb. I need a walkabout

I doubt that there are enough examples of that phenomenon to warrant a special word to describe it.

Linda, I have sought an academic authority of words and their variations. I don't know how long it will take to get a response back considering summer break. Your question will not go unavenged.

Has anyone here actually seen the Michael Moore film, or are we all just going from other sources? I've seen a couple of reports on CNBC (the financial news channel), and they say that the docujunkery pretty much confines its criticism to the health insurance industry, not the health care system itself. Although Moore's intellectual discipline is reflected in his waistline discipline, he probably has a point there.

Thanks for all the research, I couldn't find anything either. Just thought I would throw it out there and see if anyone knew.

Thanx Ian, as I said before I know little of the US system and the impression I got was that the HMO system IS the US health system. I realise he made it for the US but an explanation would have helped those of us from o/s fully understand it.

The docudrama(?) is due in our theaters this week-end. I've only based my comments from interviews and clips..but I agree it seems to focus on the insurance angle. Michael Moore has said he wasn't playing politics this time, but was seeking help in seeing that all folks were covered by some form of insurance. Children, especially should get needed health care and that profit should not be a part of the care delivered. Mary, the health care system is hard for us to understand here in the U.S.A, and many problems are tied up with the immigration crisis today. Rightly or wrongly, many loop holes have been left open for abuse, and problems abound.

What effect has a litigious society had on the cost of health care? Liability insurance premiums to cover doctors, hospitals and manufacturers has to be figured into the equation. The cost to CYB is passed on to the consumer. Anecdotally speaking, the huge awards given as a result of the suits brought against the tobacco industry didn't hurt the tobacco companies, they just passed the cost on to the cunsumer in much higher prices for the product.

Jeb
great point, I think a litigious society has added mega costs to all facets of our lives.
the cost of all forms of insurance has added a small fortune to all the goods and services we want to use or purchase.
I think accepting that some things that happen to you us are an accident or our own fault would make for a much nicer and less expensive society. am guessing that a few lawyers, solicitors and all up legal fraternity might have gone broke though.

it seems we need to blame someone though for the things that we choose to do and are not happy with the outcome of, and accidents are just that accidents.
I dont have an issue with those that are entitiled to be compensated being so.

The classic example of 'it's not my fault, I'm the victim here' is the lady that spilled Mcdonalds coffee in her lap as she drove away. she sued the company AND WON. The fact that she's holding a fresh cup of (she ordered it hot, it is hot coffee afterall) hot coffee and trying to maneuver an automobile out of a drive in parking lot has nothing to do with the issue. It's the company's fault. Give me a break, nobody is willing to take responsibilies for their own actions anymore.
Some years ago, a man came to Wichita to take delivery of a brand new Beech Bonanza. He flew it home to a nearby airfield. He called the tower and requested a low level inverted flight over the runway to show off his new plane. The tower gave him clearance for a low level pass but told him inverted flight was at pilot's discretion. The Bonanza is not rated for aerobatics by the way. He rolled the plane over and flew down the runway eventuall flying the plane into the ground. His survivors sued Beechcraft and believe it or not, won their suit. Go figure.

what about the judge who wanted millions of dollars for a lost pair of trousers? He lost thank goodness

A simple case of abuse of 'perceived' power. Who did he think he was, the first ever person to get his britches mangled by a mangle?

Let's see if I understand how America works lately
If a woman burns her thighs on the hot coffee she was holding in her lap while driving, she blames the restaurant.
ok lets extend things logically in that sameline.....
If you smoke three packs a day for 40 years and die of lung cancer, your family blames the tobacco company.
If your daughter gets pregnant by the football captain, you blame the school for poor s*x education
If your grandchildren are brats without manners, you blame television.
if a person dies while working on his/her system,(PC)
will Bill Gates be blamed??if so what are the chances of winning the case??

Probably pretty good, ap. I think you have the concept firmly in mind. There is an ambulance chasing shyster lawyer on every streetcorner looking for the easy cash cow. Just think of all the missed opportunities to retire early during your last visit over here.

Things are never quite so simple as they might seem...

It turns out that McDonald's became aware that many of their coffee sales were in large take-out purchases for places like construction sites. Trouble is, those sites might be fifteen minutes away, and the coffee would not be as hot as people wanted by the time it got there. So McDonald's superheated their coffee to gain a marketing edge on their competitors. The coffee they were selling was hot enough not just to burn, but to scald. Furthermore, McDonald's knew it, since they had settled hundreds of similar suits. The same injury could easily have occurred if a child bumped and spilled a parent's cup of coffee into the parent's lap at a table inside the restaurant. Of course, it's easier to react to the hot liquid from a restaurant chair than a car seat. In this case, the woman suffered third-degree burns and required skin grafts.

The jury clearly wanted to send the message that business competition was not a good enough reason to put customers in harm's way. And McDonald's got the message. Their coffee now is the same temperature as everybody else's. In addition, there have been substantial improvements to the material and design of both the cups (to conserve heat) and lids (for safety), industry-wide. All those strange little pull-back tabs and other vents are a direct result of litigation.

It's worth checking out Wikpidepia [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald's_coffee_case], Snopes [http://www.snopes.com/legal/lawsuits.asp],and the Consumer Attorneys of California [http://www.caoc.com/CA/index.cfm?event=showPage&pg=facts].


It's also interesting to compare not only what details each site considers most important, but where they contradict each other.

Ian, those are the facts of the matter. But what goes completely unsaid is that those few people that still have their mind between their ears will treat a fresh cup of coffee as being hot and take appropriate precautions. I have a hard time believing it was third degree burns, that almost always requires open flame or extreem radiant heat with prolonged exposure or high voltage and current. Maybe as bad as second degree. Third degree burns are identified as open chared flesh. Second degree ends at the blister stage, and first degree by varying stages of redness. Red Cross First Aid 101.

The assertions of third degree burns and skin grafts seem to be undisputed. And the jury didn't pick a number out of the air; the $2.7 million was 2 days' worth of coffee sales, chosen to make a point to McDonald's. The jury further agreed with you to the extent of finding the woman's negligence to be 20% contributory, reducing the $200k compensatory damages to $160k. That was true even though she wasn't driving, but a passenger in a parked car. [The part of the story that says she was driving is inaccurate, and added simply to make the case seem more absurd.]

The judge then reduced the total award to $640,000, and McDonald's, rather than take an appeal to the end, settled for what remains an unknown amount.

The judge's pants? Another matter. And the fact that it's newsworthy is demonstration enough that it's wacko, very unusual, and isn't going anywhere.

But for every one of those, there's an internal memo buried someplace that it's cheaper to kill people than fix the problem (Ford Pinto gas tank, Enron, Agent Orange, thalydomide, flammable children's pajamas, W. R. Grace, Love Canal...the list goes on and on).

Manufacturers are irresponsible in the same proportion as all human beings are irresponsible. What should we do about that?

Our system of jurisprudence is costly and slow, two very serious shortcomings. But most of the time, it works about as well as any human endeavor, maybe better because of all the safeguards.

What would you replace is with?

With all that said and the political arena we are currently blessed with, I vote for John Galt for president. That aside, I don't have a clue. I grew up at a time when it was acceptable to hang horse thieves and if you fell out of a tree you picked yourself up and moved on. There was no such a thing as a bicycle helmet and a pickup bed full of kids was bound to end up where the fun was. Our society has evolved to an urban environment and become completely disconnected from the out of doors where the critters roam. I've seen city kids visit the woods at camp and be freaked out by bugs. One kid sent out to gather fire wood hadn't returned for close to an hour. He was found walking up and down the access road. Said he couldn't find any wood. The access road cut through 3000 un-fenced acres of post oak forest. I see that as a symptom of where society is going or has already arrived.

Now that, I agree with....nannification. And yes, I know, there are terrible accidents. But I still think that one of the saddest things I've ever seen is a 12-year-old boy wearing a bicycle helmet.

And....

Leash laws
No smoking
seat belts
internal passports
firecrackers
halloween
zero tolerance
sun block
no burning leaves
bottled water
gun control
water purifiers

....and so much more

except a ban on being a bandwidth hog....

ha!i liked the punch line..

Now that we've gotten that settled, Ian, there shouldn't be any more problems.......right?

so what next?

coffee anyone?

Sounds good Mary, cowboy coffee, boiled till it will float a horseshoe.

yes Jeb its done.either you shall skim it from the top with a shallow spoon(if you happen to have one)or you can use the one that i have strained it thru your shirt pocket!!the effect is good...and if you wanna have a secs well i have left in the pot as it is..enjoy

Skim? Strain? What's cowboy coffee without floaties?

jeb, let me know if Bean Around forgets to remove your shirt before straining hot coffee through the pocket. And take a temperature reading, too. My attorneys at the firm of Win, Place and Showcause are interested.

It's worse than that, Ian. That's the pocket I keep my Durham and papers in. He's got more problems from me now than a brief case full of attourneys.